Alexandre Pantoja Exclusive UFC 323 Interview

We caught up with UFC Flyweight World Champion and Stake Ambassador, Alexandre Pantoja as he sets to defend his belt against Joshua Van at UFC 323.

Pantoja will headline the event, live from T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas, where he looks to defend his legacy as one of the best Flyweight fighters in UFC history.

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It is another massive event for you, on a PPV, as the co-main event. How does it feel that the UFC trusts you with these high profile slots?

I am super happy, and I think I deserve it. I am starting to think more about - although I don’t really like this word - legacy. I don’t like the word because who am I to talk about legacy? I’m not an emperor. I’m not a king or anything like that.

I think the most important thing for me is my family. Being a provider, being a father. But I also think we’ve done a very good job, very solid for my division. It’s very special because a couple of years ago, there was a lot of negative talk about the Flyweight division. Now it’s so different. I think Flyweight is now one of the most entertaining divisions in the UFC.

You can talk about the whole division. There are 50 good names. There’s a very solid top 10 and a very competitive top five, with names like Manuel Kape, Royval, Taira, Moreno, Van. I am very happy that Kyoji Horiguchi has come to the UFC again. That’s an amazing era. It’s very good for me to be a champion in this division right now. The UFC understands that it is very good to have a solid champion. I talk about how hard it is to be a champion in times like this. Everything changes so fast. You have the internet; if someone’s good, they’re going to be brought into the UFC quickly. Everything moves so fast, and to still be a world champion for two or three years, that’s amazing.

You have great pound for pound champions too, for example Makhachev, Topuria, Merab. Everybody does such an amazing job. I want to be the best of the best. I want to be the number one pound-for-pound fighter. I have a huge chance to prove that on December 6th. I’m starting to think about how I can show everybody how good I am.

I don’t focus too much on social media, which is strange because right now everybody is thinking about social media. If you’re not on social media, you lose money, you lose views, and that’s important for the business. I understand that. But at the same time, I don’t think about who I am in that way. I don’t really like to take my phone to record something; I want to enjoy the moment. I 100% enjoy the moment and don’t feel the need to make a video.

At the same time, I am thinking about how I can show my skills and my value. I really think about Anderson Silva. Back in the day, he didn’t speak English, but everybody knew who Anderson Silva was and how talented he was. That’s because when people paid for pay-per-views, watched TV, or waited to see him fight, he looked amazing. I’m not saying I want to be Anderson Silva, but I try to be amazing so that everyone stops and watches my fights. That’s what I want.

You can see this in my last two performances. Every time I step into the Octagon, I try to give a great show for everybody. After so many years of work, I can feel my level has gone up. My technique is much better now. I don’t want to speak about other fighters, but I believe I’m a much better fighter.

In my last fight, I couldn’t improve any more in the gym. I invested everything I had. I still invest in myself: therapy, diet, sleeping well, taking naps, going to bed early. Everything I eat, I always need to know what’s going into my body.

Everybody tries to be a good athlete, but I still have something extra - my life experiences, the sacrifices I’ve made, everything I’ve gone through - all of that helps me right now. I put it together with my current life, everything I have now, and I think it’s a very dangerous combination for anyone who steps in the Octagon with me.

In your last two fights, do you think the fans have realised just how good you are?

With some people, yes. But the haters are mad for whatever reason. After every fight they have something to say..’Kai Kara-France is not that good’ or ‘Kai Asakura, he came from another show’ or ‘Moreno got robbed in that fight’.

You’re never good enough, you know? And I really don’t care. I do my job. I go very hard every day in the gym. My training partners know how much I want it.

I don’t just want to go on December 6 to defend the belt. I want to conquer. I want to prove I’m the champion of the world. I have this chance to fight for the belt again and I really appreciate that. I want to put it all together and make it a very good event. And finally, I want to climb the pound-for-pound rankings.

You always knew that Van was going to be next, did this make the preparation different?

I don’t know if it’s different, but I believe in Joshua Van. That hype, that motivation…it’s there. When I have a huge opponent like Joshua Van, I put in the good work, and I have high expectations. He’s young, he’s fresh.

When he fought Royval, he only had about a month to prepare. Now he comes much better prepared for me because he has a full camp. I know he’s much stronger than he was in that fight. I really want to fight the best fighters in the world, and that’s why I’m here. I’m happy to do that for the UFC.

I’ve fought a Mexican, Brandon Moreno, an American, Brandon Royval, Steve Erceg from Australia, Kai Asakura from Japan and Kai Kara-France from New Zealand. My division is clearly world-class.

I feel very happy and glad just to have the chance to prove how good I am against the best fighters in the world. That’s how I see Joshua, as one of the best fighters in the world. That’s why I train so hard. That’s also why I’m not a social media guy, because I know I have tough challenges ahead.

I want to prove to the UFC with this fight that I’m still one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in the world.

Incredibly, Van was born in 2001! Your most recent opponents have all been over 30. Does this change anything for you? Or is it another day in the office?

I understand when someone comes to the Octagon with a history like Joshua’s, moving from his country, coming to America, starting something new, losing his father, and needing to take care of his mother. That’s a dangerous combination.

That’s something about motivation. Some guys don’t have that, but Josh has had that pain. That’s why he fights. You need a “why.” A lot of fighters are very good, they choose to fight, they choose to be athletes. But when a fighter has something more, like Josh has, you need to be very sharp.

I know he's different. He’s not just young, he’s young, hungry, motivated and has a reason why he fights. This makes it very, very tough for me. It makes me understand that I’m not fighting just a kid but instead I’m fighting a man and someone who grew up fast, like me.

I think whoever wins will deliver a performance the fans will love. I know that 100%.

Do you see any similarities between yourself and Joshua?

When I was his age, I was working in a restaurant cleaning dishes, I couldn’t dream of the UFC. It was so far away for me at that point. But all of that - my wins, my losses and the sacrifices I made when I didn’t have my family with me - gave me a lot of experience. I think all of that has prepared me for moments like right now.

On December 6, we will see which universe wins…who will cry and who will feel happy.

At the end of the day, I can say I feel very happy to be part of the UFC and to do my job that I love in front of 20,000 people in the arena and millions watching on TV.

After Horiguchi’s fight at the weekend he called you out, was that something you had spoken about at the gym? Did you know he was going to do that?

When Horiguchi talked about going to the UFC again, I told him, “If that’s your dream, take the UFC belt. I’m with you, brother, 100%.”

Horiguchi helped me reach a big moment in my life, to get the belt. I talked with my family, and they’re very grateful to him because he influenced my game, he elevated my level. Horiguchi is one of the greatest fighters I’ve trained with in my life and to see him perform against someone so good like Tagir Ulanbekov, that was an amazing performance.

That’s why I respect him so much. He’s so good, and everybody can see that. We already know it from the gym. But of course, all my attention is on Joshua Van right now. I can’t think about Kyoji Horiguchi at the moment.

If I can beat Joshua Van, one of the top fighters, a fight with Kyoji Horiguchi would be a dream. It’s a dream because he helped me get here. It’s like sharing a piece of the cake, something special for everyone.

If the UFC were to let him back, would Mohammed Mokaev be someone you fight in the future?

You know, I think I’m the target. Everybody looks at me and wants the belt. The only thing I need to do is win my next fight. If I win my next fight, the next opponent will come to me. Right now, I just think about my next opponent.

Mokaev is a brilliant fighter. I had a chance to train with him at American Top Team a few years ago and he was already very good. I don’t know exactly what’s happening with him in the UFC, but I’m sure he’s going to be one of the best fighters in the world.

I think it would be good to have him in the UFC again. I follow his fights, he’s doing an amazing job. The guys he’s fighting now aren’t all at the same level, and I think he deserves a fight with someone at a high level too.

We spoke to Merab last week and he said he would love to fight you in Brasil. At 135lbs, could this tempt you to make the move up in weight? Headline card at a potential card in Rio…

If it’s something the UFC wants to do and if they come to me and talk about it then maybe I’ll start thinking a little more. But right now, I’m focused on Joshua and my division. For me, Flyweight is one of the most entertaining divisions in the UFC right now. We have so many good challengers

I don’t think I’m ready to move up yet. I still want to defend my belt if I get the chance. As for Merab, I need to be very smart about considering a fight with him. Moving up to 135 and fighting for the belt just because the UFC gives the chance isn’t enough. If I fight Merab, I need to be ready. I may need more time to get in the right shape, to feel stronger. Merab is a beast and he’s proven it.

He’s one of the best in the UFC. Talking about pound-for-pound, beating the number one pound-for-pound is not easy. You have Makhachev, Topuria and Merab…it really is one of the best eras in UFC history right now. It feels very special that my name comes up in that conversation.

But all my eyes and focus are on December 6th. I want to prove to everybody that I’m the champion, and I want to move to number one pound-for-pound.

We saw in the female fight between Zhang Weili and Valentina Shevchenko that Zhang’s power didn’t translate to the higher weight category. Is that what you are thinking, too?

This is a very good example. Zhang Weili is an amazing fighter but when she tried to go against Valentina, it was a very tough fight. I think something similar could happen with me and Merab.

When you’re talking about the lighter divisions, even ten pounds is a big difference. When you see Makhachev go up to fight Jack Della Maddalena, you don’t see a lot of difference and you still see a competitive fight.

Maybe if you think about Sean O’Malley when he was champion, I would say 100%, I can fight that guy. But someone like Merab? He’s very tough.

You have mentioned quite a few times your respect for Makhachev and Topuria. If they were to fight, how would you see that fight going?

Makhachev is so strong. I have huge respect for Topuria and I love his fighting style. But size matters. Makhachev’s grappling style and his muscles, it all counts. Topuria can be punchy, and when you step into the Octagon, it’s always 50-50. But with Makhachev’s size and skill, I don’t see anyone beating him right now. Maybe the only person who could is Chimaev, but they are in different divisions. I love Carlos Prates, the new kid Michael Morales and Ian Gary. But in the division Makachev is in right now, I don’t see anyone finishing him.

Makhachev has a very solid game. He’s so strong and it’s hard to beat a guy like that when he’s ready to grapple for 25 minutes and knows exactly what he’s doing. UFC was created to prove the best martial arts and we see the evolution in grappling now. Every UFC champion has a solid base in wrestling and grappling.

But it’s also very important to put on a good show for the fans, like Topuria does. I hope I can put on a great show for everyone watching on December 6th!